Curse

arnansnow · Jul 13, 2005, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

What's that supposed to mean?

I've only very rarely posted here and... clue me in, would you?

If my post came off as nasty, it wasn't intended to be that way.

*is utterly confused*

Don't worry about CaptainGuru, he just likes trolling the forums.

EmperorTippy · Jul 13, 2005, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

The farming builds you know NOW may be neutralized. That said, and as the article about MMO sweatshops indicated, it won't take them long to "fix" that and make it doable by a bot or some other type of exploitation.

Having AN set the difficulty slider is the only thing that will reduce the likelihood of exploitation.

Bots don't farm by killing things they farm by running to chests and such. Making a bot that can farm monsters gets very hard very fast even right now. Imagine how hard it would be with the monsters attack and health DOUBLED (not to mention using enchantment stripping more often).

EDIT: Can we get back on topic now?

Rieselle · Jul 13, 2005, 01:14 AM // 01:14

I'd prefer they made the game harder by making the monsters smarter. Give them more skills, that they use more usefully, give them balanced parties, make them less predictable, etc.

Then the easy monsters at the beginning can be easy because they are dumb.

Creating difficulty by merely scaling up numbers always feels like the AI is cheating to me, and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Besides, if you have found a "trick" that lets you beat a monster, giving them more health just makes you take longer. I prefer smarter enemies that you have to think/adapt to beat.

EmperorTippy · Jul 13, 2005, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Interesting idea Rieselle but while mine could be easily implamented yours would require rewriting a lot of the AI of the monsters. I understand were your coming from and agree with you but your idea is a lot harder to implament than mine. Hell I could code mine in to GW in about 10 miniutes as it just requires adding a few if statments, a new menu option, and another while loop or for loop into the monster AI to make it work.

Aniewiel · Jul 13, 2005, 01:25 AM // 01:25

I agree, with what you said, Rieselle. But, as ET (

) says, it isn't something that is doable in the short term.

That said, it IS something that could perhaps be explored in expansions. While the original game areas might have to stay "as is", perhaps future expansion critters could wield a bit more gray matter than the originals.

I would go for that 100%!

YellowMarker161 · Jul 13, 2005, 01:27 AM // 01:27

I think that would be a great idea.

Zubrowka · Jul 13, 2005, 03:22 AM // 03:22

That's a roundabout way to deal with the issue. If the problem is quests/missions being too easy when a group is good, then a better solution is to dynamically adjust the difficulty of the game based on how well the players are doing. For example, if the players manages to kill off the first group of enemies without breaking a sweat, then the second and third group would get closer to each other so the players have to fight both at the same time.

Aniewiel · Jul 13, 2005, 04:01 AM // 04:01

That's a good suggestion too, Zubrowka. I wonder how coding on something like that might work?

CaptainGuru · Jul 13, 2005, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rieselle

I'd prefer they made the game harder by making the monsters smarter. Give them more skills, that they use more usefully, give them balanced parties, make them less predictable, etc.

Then the easy monsters at the beginning can be easy because they are dumb.

Creating difficulty by merely scaling up numbers always feels like the AI is cheating to me, and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Besides, if you have found a "trick" that lets you beat a monster, giving them more health just makes you take longer. I prefer smarter enemies that you have to think/adapt to beat.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=31911

Having several groups of monsters in one area does not make a quest hard. Having monsters work together like a real group would benefit players more and provide a better challenge than 20 monster roaming in one area with Bad A.I. I believe monster should be similar to the unworthy undead outside of TPK when you attempt to the do mission. This will help cut down boring gameply and require the players apply themselves more than these quest and mission provide. PvE has been the biggest bore because all I have to do press a button against any monster and they are dead. None of the monsters respond quick to heal their companion and the fight ends quickly before you know it.

None of the mission and quests have been challenging either. I rarely die on a mission or quest unless we stringy 20 or so monsters together or if I try to solo a monster with henchmen. But that doesn't make a quest hard. What makes a quest hard is when enemies work together against a group. So lowering the number of monsters in quests and missions and upping their A.I would benefit PvE a great deal.

crazy diamond · Jul 13, 2005, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

As I stated in the bold print please explain why this is a bad idea and why ANet should decide how to set the difficulty ingame.

Oh, I'm sorry my post didn't meet your demands and thus caused you dissatisfaction.

To put it bluntly I believe that Anet has a better idea of what they're doing than anything you could ever come up with.

I didn't want to be rude, but you insisted.

EmperorTippy · Jul 13, 2005, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy diamond

Oh, I'm sorry my post didn't meet your demands and thus caused you dissatisfaction.

To put it bluntly I believe that Anet has a better idea of what they're doing than anything you could ever come up with.

I didn't want to be rude, but you insisted.

I agree that ANet prolly has a better idea of what ther'ye doing than anything I could ever come up with. The problem is though that ANet keeps making the game easier and if the expansion isn't any harder I prolly won't buy any more of then. I like a challenge. Now as ANet says to post suggestions on the forums I have. As far as I can tell mt idea is balanced and doesn't frorce you to use it at all. It can even make the game easier to an extent if the player was so inclined.

If any person can find out how my suggestion isn't balanced, would cause a determent to your fun, create an exploit or have any other negative effect on the game please post it so that I can figuire out how to make this idea the best that it can be. Rember to explain your reasoning behind your assertions.

Thanks in advance

crazy diamond · Jul 13, 2005, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

Rember to explain your reasoning behind your assertions.

I did explain.

I think they're smarter than you. Try to keep up. :P

EmperorTippy · Jul 13, 2005, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy diamond

I did explain.

I think they're smarter than you. Try to keep up. :P

I know that you explained I just added that part on there for the people who make un founded coments i.e. trolls. If they have to explain then tend to not troll. Now back on topic.

Zubrowka · Jul 13, 2005, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

That's a good suggestion too, Zubrowka. I wonder how coding on something like that might work?

A time-based method is probably easiest. The enemies could start out in a difficult configuration, then after a some time move to positions that favor the players. Enemy tactics would work similiarly.

Silmor · Jul 13, 2005, 01:55 PM // 13:55

EmperorTippy, if I recall correctly, you abuse Protective Bond with ridiculously low max health as pretty much the only thing you do, so I can readily imagine large parts of the game are too easy and boring for you. However, the first thing I notice in your suggestion is higher drops and experience for higher difficulty, so it's not just challenge you're after.

This kind of difficulty/returns scaling would disproportionally benefit/reward those people abusing flaws/weaknesses in monster skillsets and AI, thus promoting the more cheesy ways of playing PvE. You're free to play how you choose, but I doubt ArenaNet has much interest in keeping the game interesting for those people who play it in a way they did not design the game around.

I wouldn't mind a higher difficulty setting, but drops and experience should remain consistent throughout - let challenge be challenge, not an excuse for better returns. A lower difficulty setting would be impractical and I doubt anyone would be interested in this.

Andy of Glacieria · Jul 13, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50

The idea itself is good... But what if u went into a team where players had different game difficulty? Sadly, it cannot be used for the latter reason.

MSecorsky · Jul 13, 2005, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

That's a good suggestion too, Zubrowka. I wonder how coding on something like that might work?

Simplest thing I can think of is to have the monsters range of awareness vary somehow. Say the more kills you rack up, the more aware monsters in the zone become of your presence, the more likely they are to help each other.

Of course, those solo monster farmers would abuse this to no end...

Talesin Darkbriar · Jul 13, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

Add a difficulty slider like in Morrowind.
In morrowind you could move the slider from 0 to 100 with the default at 50. Give players the ability to change the difficulty after their account has beat the game.

You should have played EQ a little bit ET; they did an interesting thing:
They created these Planes of Power that required a "test" to get access into each one. Each test could be completed two ways; a very simple easy method, or an involved difficult challenging method.
The reward was the same, you just got bragging rights if you completed the difficult version.
Guess what happened?
Absolutely NOBODY did the "difficult" method - they all went for quick and easy.

Call it human nature, call it overall gamer mentality, whatever. 95% of the playerbase wants something for preferably...nothing.
All the posts regarding rushing to the Forge and whatnot are ample proof.

What would probably get thunderous applause and approval is what these fools really want:
a simple command that gives them everything; all skills, loot and 20th level:
/god mode

Quite sad, but also quite true.

Talesin

viet · Jul 13, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

my easy way to make the game harder.
fight without armor. in the nude

theres no need to get the xpansion since anet says "you can be competitive without the expansion".

& since anet keeps nerfing the game, theres no more challenge in it for serious gamers.

EmperorTippy · Jul 13, 2005, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

EmperorTippy, if I recall correctly, you abuse Protective Bond with ridiculously low max health as pretty much the only thing you do, so I can readily imagine large parts of the game are too easy and boring for you. However, the first thing I notice in your suggestion is higher drops and experience for higher difficulty, so it's not just challenge you're after.

This kind of difficulty/returns scaling would disproportionally benefit/reward those people abusing flaws/weaknesses in monster skillsets and AI, thus promoting the more cheesy ways of playing PvE. You're free to play how you choose, but I doubt ArenaNet has much interest in keeping the game interesting for those people who play it in a way they did not design the game around.

I wouldn't mind a higher difficulty setting, but drops and experience should remain consistent throughout - let challenge be challenge, not an excuse for better returns. A lower difficulty setting would be impractical and I doubt anyone would be interested in this.

That is only 1 character which I created to see how viable the build was. I only use him to farm UW so I can get the Ectos I need for FoW armor for my other character. Don't assume that from the one build that I have posted I abuse the system or play cheaply. I have stated many times that I don't farm except for Ectos and shards and I don't, all other items I sell and spend the money to buy more ectos and shards.

Also many many PvEers have said that the game is to easy and thats why they went to PvP. This game took me 22 game hours to beat knowing absoultly nothing about the game other than what was stated in the book that came with it. It took me another 34 hours to get all the skills for both my professions (Elemtal and Monk) including Elites. When you can complete about 1/4 (6 professions and 2 parts PvP, I completed 2 professions) of the content of a game like Guild Wars in less than 60 hours after starting completle cold the game is to easy. I have played WoW for 3 hours total on a friends account and SWG for 15 hours total on another friends account.

If you notice it says in my orginal post that as the difficulty increased the number of monsters using enchant stripping also increased. With the farming build I use you get very long fights because I do like 5 damage per attack. If my enchants were stripped then I would only last as long as my spellbreaker lasts. (Like 15 seconds)

The increase in loot/experiance is to counteract what Talesin was talking about were the harder content was offered and almost no one used it. With a reward for playing the harder difficulty more people will use it. You also have to realize that if you have 8 people in southern shiverpeaks all on difficulty 100 then the monsters will have DOUBLE Health and Energy and do Double damage with all attacks plus use enchant stripping more often. If these players can kill mursatt and ettins like this by all means give them better loot for it. But increaed loot would work like this: Monster has a 1% chance to drop item x at lvl 50 difficulty. At level 100 dificulty the monster has a 10% chance to drop item x. Now if you could solo this monster you would have a much better chance of getting item x, but as you have to use 8 people were you could once solo your chance of getting the item is 1.25% or a .25%. You also have to rember that I said that as the difficultly level dropped lower the chance decreased so that at level 45 difficulty item x would NEVER drop and at 0 difficulty NOTHING at all EVER drops.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy of Glacieria

The idea itself is good... But what if u went into a team where players had different game difficulty? Sadly, it cannot be used for the latter reason.

*Refers you to relevant passage from my orginal post*

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

To stop a person being dragged through a harder difficulty than they can play the instance is loaded based on the LOWEST DIFFICULTY SETTING IN THE PARTY. Say that 7 people have the difficulty set to 100 and 1 person has it at 75, the whole instance is now set to the 75 difficulty level. A persons current difficulty level should be added next to their name so that there are no mistakes in forming a party.

EDIT: Added this so I wouldn't double post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by viet

my easy way to make the game harder.
fight without armor. in the nude

theres no need to get the xpansion since anet says "you can be competitive without the expansion".

& since anet keeps nerfing the game, theres no more challenge in it for serious gamers.

I already play without armor some times and as Silmor so kindly pointed out I play a protective bond build at times were armor level doesn't matter at all so then I don't bother with the armor. Half the time I don't wear armor because as a caster if I ever start getting hit its usally to late anyways so whats the point?